Episode Chapters

• [00:00] Welcome and Introduction

• [01:00] Early Encounters and AlphaCode

• [04:00] Innovation in Payments

• [07:30] Platform as a Service

• [09:00] Innovating Within a Big Bank

• [11:00] Partnerships and Fintechs

• [14:00] A Uniquely African Approach

• [18:00] Leapfrogging in Africa

• [21:00] Financial Inclusion

• [23:00] Women in Payments

• [30:00] Personal Growth and Grit

• [36:00] Fear and Boldness

• [45:00] Parenting and the Next Generation

• [48:00] Closing Reflections

‍

[00:00] Welcome and Introduction

Dov Girnun: Welcome to the Here We Grow podcast. I’m your host, Dov Girnun, and you’re listening to the real stories, bold moves, and tough truths behind what it really takes to grow your business.

Today I’m joined by a powerhouse in financial innovation and payments, a friend, Chipo Mushwana. Chipo is the Executive of Emerging Innovation and Payments at Nedbank.

Chipo Mushwana: I’m excited to be here, Dov. Always a pleasure having a chat with you.

‍

[01:00] Early Encounters and AlphaCode

Dov Girnun: When we first met, it was about ten years ago at the launch of AlphaCode, which was Rand Merchant Investment Holdings’ Innovation Lab. I remember it vividly because RMI had just invested in Merchant Capital, and AlphaCode was our first exposure to that ecosystem. I’ll never forget Paul Harris standing up and saying to the crowd, we think we’ve found the next Adrian Gore. That was intimidating.

You were just starting out at AlphaCode then, as Community Manager, before going on to head it up. In nine short years, you’ve achieved so much. What ignited your passion back then for financial innovation?

Chipo Mushwana: Before AlphaCode, I was working with Hand in Hand, helping micro-entrepreneurs across Africa access finance and markets. That’s where my passion started. AlphaCode gave me a larger platform to channel resources into entrepreneurs like you, and seeing businesses like Merchant Capital grow has been incredible.

‍

[04:00] Innovation in Payments

Dov Girnun: Fast forward to today, you’ve led some game-changing innovations at Nedbank. What do you think will truly reshape how people experience money in the next five years?

Chipo Mushwana: SoftPOS is my favourite. I first saw it in Dublin and knew I had to bring it back to South Africa. It turns smartphones into payment devices, cutting the cost for entrepreneurs, side hustlers, and gig workers. It took 14 months of work, but now all the banks use it, and the cost of devices has dropped for everyone.

‍

[07:30] Platform as a Service

Dov Girnun: You’re now driving Platform as a Service at Nedbank. What does that mean for customers?

Chipo Mushwana: It’s about building a secure, scalable foundation that allows fast innovation. For customers, it means simplicity, adaptability, and security. We’re moving from products to platforms, unlocking new ways for people to interact with their money every day.

‍

[09:00] Innovating Within a Big Bank

Dov Girnun: How have you managed to innovate inside a big bureaucratic bank?

Chipo Mushwana: It’s about understanding the lay of the land. Technology alone isn’t enough. You need to manage stakeholders, diffuse internal resistance, and show value. Every day is a pitch, internally and externally. But if you focus on what’s right for the customer and the enterprise, you can win.

‍

[11:00] Partnerships and Fintechs

Dov Girnun: Globally, we’re seeing banks partner with fintechs rather than build everything themselves. Are you seeing that here?

Chipo Mushwana: Definitely. If we can’t build, we buy. If we can’t buy, we borrow. Power is no longer centralised, so partnerships are essential. Long-term, fair partnerships benefit both banks and fintechs.

‍

[14:00] A Uniquely African Approach

Dov Girnun: You’ve written about taking a uniquely African approach to payments. How do you design solutions for fragmented markets?

Chipo Mushwana: It’s about flexibility and local nuance. For example, in Zimbabwe, remittances must often be in US dollars. Digital initiation on one side, cash on the other. Banks bring compliance and scale, but local partners provide the insights that make solutions work.

‍

[18:00] Leapfrogging in Africa

Dov Girnun: Why do you think South African banks have been so successful?

Chipo Mushwana: Because we’ve had to leapfrog. Constraints like high data costs force innovation. Plus, our regulator fosters innovation by asking tough questions about fees and inclusion. South Africans are also digitally savvy across demographics, so adoption is rapid.

‍

[21:00] Financial Inclusion

Dov Girnun: What does meaningful financial inclusion look like to you?

Chipo Mushwana: It’s more than access to a bank account. It’s about dignity, choice, and full participation in the economy. Payments grow the economy for everyone—the more people participate, the bigger the pie.

‍

[23:00] Women in Payments

Dov Girnun: You founded Women in Payments South Africa. Why?

Chipo Mushwana: To amplify women’s contributions and open doors. It’s not just representation; it’s about building training, mentorship, and visibility. Many senior women leave because they lack support. We’re rewriting that narrative and creating an authentic space for women to thrive.

‍

[30:00] Personal Growth and Grit

Dov Girnun: Looking back, what have been your biggest growth moments as you balanced career and raising two boys?

Chipo Mushwana: Early in my career I travelled across Africa with a baby less than a year old, building programmes from scratch. Later, I did my MBA while pregnant and broke, which tested everything. At Nedbank, I’ve built innovations with zero budget, learning to negotiate and hustle within corporate walls. All of these moments shaped my grit.

‍

[36:00] Fear and Boldness

Dov Girnun: Many bold ideas never leave the page because of fear. How do you move past that?

Chipo Mushwana: Fear isn’t a stop sign; it’s a companion. Sit with it, learn from it, but keep moving. In South Africa, failure is stigmatised, but we need to change that mindset. Boldness can be taught if people are shown and supported.

‍

[45:00] Parenting and the Next Generation

Dov Girnun: How are you raising your boys in this changing world?

Chipo Mushwana: I focus on responsibility and agency. They must own their decisions, whether it’s packing their schoolbags or explaining themselves to teachers. Both are gamers, one wants to be an engineer, and my role is to support them with data and guidance. Parenting has no rulebook, but I’m raising them to be responsible decision-makers.

‍

[48:00] Closing Reflections

Dov Girnun: Finally, when you’re 80, what do you hope your 40-year-old self will have achieved?

Chipo Mushwana: That my legacy looks good. That my impact was meaningful and can be traced through businesses, systems, and lives touched. That I created vehicles, like Women in Payments, that outlive me and continue making a difference.

Dov Girnun: Beautiful. I think your 80-year-old self will already be proud. Thank you, Chipo, it’s been a privilege.

Chipo Mushwana: Thank you, Dov.

‍